They fell for it hook, line, and sinker, and they were stuck. There was not a cloud in sight and you are the king. Jew or gentile? Is there something I'm missing? Psalm 34:17-18 The righteous cry out, and the LORD hears, and delivers them out of all their troubles. There are things like destruction for their sin, and the family takes that long to recover from that destruction. The Lord told them they had made a commitment to these people and they had to stand by it. They are still there. He had a body of law that he could have referred back to and come up with a solution. It is very evident from verse 4 that somebody offered money, either from the palace or from the family of Saul. THE BATTLES OF THE LORD This meant the latter harvest has passed, and maybe another month or so went by. He was tired of life, tired of war, tired of all the politics, tired of all the rebellion, tired of Joab. These are the two hints. WebAnd the Lord answered, Saul and his family of murderers are the reason for the famine, because he killed the Gibeonites. 2 (The Gibeonites were not Israelites. What do we do in a time of spiritual famine? If He said that you are out of here, you are out of here. David then goes to Gibeonites and asked to make amends. This is certainly not the David of Psalm 34, where he wrote. Seven of Sauls descendants were hanged as a result. In the economy of God's providence, however, such tiny events often matter much. In some ways, the story centers around covenants or treaties, one made between Israel and the Gibeonites in Joshua 9, another between Jonathan and David in 1 Sam. Because he may have been still depressed by Absalom's death. How far away was Gilgal from Gibeon? That generation had begun to pass. WebThis points to their employment in the sanctuary; and possibly may shed some light on the massacre of the Gibeonites by Saul (2 Samuel 21:1). A person dies for his own sins, not those committed by someone else, whether father, son, or black sheep uncle. Once again, God's anointed was compelled to humble himself and his nation before a delegation of these servile Gibeonites. You cannot tell. It takes into consideration things like accidental death, and premeditation. It is not the sin of Adam and Eve; it is their own sin. The verb is used in this sense with respect to Joshua's action toward the Gibeonites in Joshua 9:27, where cultic servitude is involved ("for the altar of the Lord"). Each generation had to live out its days as "hewers of wood and carriers of water". If you read 2Samuel 21 carefully, it seems possible that Saul and his house may have been trying to get the Gibeonites territory. The Gibeonites joined in the fight against the Philistines B. On the other hand, when people do well, like Abraham, and they live God's way of life, this allows God the leeway to show mercy unto thousands of generations of people. Webzeal of king Saul - who was a Benjaminite - against the Gibeonites. Most people living in modern, Western culture better identify with flawed heroes, rather than perfect heroes. Web11 Then the king sent for the priest Ahimelek son of Ahitub and all the men of his family, who were the priests at Nob, and they all came to the king. He does not seem to have asked the priest who would know the law the best to find out what Scripture said about situations like this. . What have you been thinking about?". It was as if David earlier said, "Let's just get this out of the way. It would be the equivalent of an event somewhere between the Korean War and the Vietnam War. The breach of contract was serious enough that God sent the famine in response. It's much too heavy any more!" Moreover you shall take no ransom for the life of a murderer who is guilty of death, but he shall surely be put to death [he cannot buy his way out]. God took the initiative in this matter, by afflicting the nation of Israel with a famine because the house of Saul had put the Gibeonites to death. Some unfinished business here needs to be taken care of. There is a very important difference. Has the book of Amos been fulfilled or is it a reference to end times? Jesus Christ should be everyone's ultimate hero. Perhaps he thought, "Hmm. Rizpah, Lord Alfred Tennyson in 1878. To put it in a more modern time setting, a lot of people prefer Batman (the dark one), or Spiderman (the geek), to Superman for the very same reasons. We have an easier time identifying with the flawed, but heroic, Lancelot from the legends of King Arthur, because he is a lot more like ushe commits sin; he has faults. The Gibeonites were a very shrewd bunch of people. How does this all connect with Ezekiel chapter 18? . 1 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year. This angered God and was only amended years later after sacrificing seven of Sauls sons to the Gibeonites by hanging them before Jehovah at Sauls hometown, Gibeah. After that, Gibeonites were no longer mentioned though there are some writers who believed that they were among the Nethinim, the ones selected to serve the temple. It does not matter. The two hints are that Saul and his house had a reputation for violence"Saul and his bloodthirsty house." And the Gibeonites said to him, "We will have no silver or gold from Saul or from his house, nor shall you kill any man in Israel for us." Joshua realized he had been deceived, but he kept the letter of his covenant with the Gibeonites to let them live; however, he cursed and enslaved them as woodcutters and water-carriers. Saul later pursued the Gibeonites and sought to kill them off in his zeal for the children of Israel and Judah. Therefore, there was a different system of justice than what the Gentiles were used to. Although the people of Israel had sworn to spare them, Saul had sought to strike them down in his zeal for the people of Israel and Judah. 21:2, NIV).2 Saul did this in his zeal for Israel and Judah. So for nationalistic reasons Saul was guilty of attempted genocide. It was common knowledge. Only in one sense, there was a fall of man, but certainly not in the traditional sense. Jonathan. We want them to reflect what a real person would do in extreme or extraordinary circumstances. DECEPTION AND COST Go coach! (Now the Gibeonites were not Israelites, but a remnant of the Amorites. Think about this for a moment. King David was perhaps the only converted person in the entire nationmaybe besides the high priest of the time, but we do not know. David did all this, it seems, off the top of his head. WebWe will attack Gibeon, because they have made peace with Joshua and the Israelites." What would be some verses from the Bible to save a marriage? II Samuel 21:3-6 Therefore David said to the Gibeonites, "What shall I do for you? They wanted the God of Israel to take it in the eye. He was not really on the ball like he should have been. It shows you just how far things had sunk in the land. God tells us that, spiritually, we have to go and wipe them out. WebMany centuries later (the period from the exodus of Israel to the reign of Saul is generally considered to be about 400 years), Saul came to the throne in Israel. David didnt get the throne until Saul and Jonathon were both dead. David was anointed king many years before he took the throne. He had Saul tryin WebThe consequences of Israels covenant with the Gibeonites were not short-term. Saul killed a lot of people. The time had passed. Those who believe that they can outsmart, outflank or in any way outmaneuver our Enemy through cerebral strategies are doomed to the slavery and destruction heaped upon Saul and the Gibeonites. David asked. Now if the LORD your God enlarges your territory, as He swore to your fathers, and gives you the land which He promised to give to your fathers, and if you keep all these commandments and do them, which I command you today, to love the LORD your God and to walk always in His ways, then you shall add three more cities for yourself besides these three, lest innocent blood be shed in the midst of your land which the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, and thus guilt of bloodshed be upon you. He keeps his word even to his own disadvantage and does not change it [for his own benefit] (Psalm 15:1, 4; AMP). What I am trying to show you by going through these different places is that there is plenty of law that King David could have looked back on. HERALDS OF HOLOCAUST If we think that we have it all figured out, I am sorry, we do not. Report. Why does the Bible say David spared Mephibosheth then offered him to the Gibeonites to be killed? "No, we don't do things like that in Israel. The second is at the end of verse 2, that "Saul had sought to kill them in his zeal for Israel and Judah." Gave 7 of Saul's sons to the Gibeonites. David was annonted by Sammuel Apr 10, 1035. And it would have been done quickly and easily. Eisenhower was still in office. And those two are questionable. How do other hominoids (e.g homo erectus, homo neanderthalensis, etc.) Then they were able to pick up the pieces of their lives and move forward by the strength that God gave them to overcome and to grow, and to put on the mindthe characterof Christ. All answers are REVIEWED and MODERATED. Does the Bible encourage the practice of Lent? We do not know how long before II Samuel 21 this incident happened. There is a difference. I Samuel 14:47-48 So Saul established his sovereignty over Israel, and fought against all his enemies on every side, against Moab, against the people of Ammon, against Edom, against the kings of Zobah, and against the Philistines. Before she married David, Abigail had been the wife of _____. Then David went and took the bones of Saul, and the bones of Jonathan his son, from the men of Jabesh Gilead who had stolen them from the street of Beth Shan, where the Philistines had hung them up, after the Philistines had struck down Saul in Gilboa. There should have been payment for it. He had to sit there and judge people with all the little things they constantly brought up to him that seemed to need his decision on. He did not negotiate at all. But Joshua had the final decision. Oh, fear the LORD, you His saints! How many died in sicknesses? Why was Satan so effective in influencing the actions of Eve? However, there was not. In verse 7 we see the only thing in the entire situation that was any good at all. How long was the average lifespan at the time? Nob. And the LORD answered, "It is because of Saul and his bloodthirsty house, because he killed the Gibeonites." In 2 Samuel 21:1-14, we see that Saul committed an awful crime, and this caused famine in Israel. I want you to understand where Barry was coming from in writing the note. 0 responses We do not know when it happened. He was setting us an example of what we should be doing in a spiritual sense. Now it came to pass, when Adonizedec king of II Samuel 21:1-2 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David inquired of the LORD. PHARAOH AND HAMAN - All I do know is that they do hold a solid place in world history and one of their offshoots or branches were the Gibeonites. And that day Joshua made them woodcutters and water carriers for the congregation and for the altar of the LORD, in the place which He would choose, even to this day. Saul and the heir to the throne, his son, Jonathan, were killed in a battle with the Philistines, and by popular acclamation, David became the King of Israel. II Samuel 21:1-14 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David inquired of the LORD. There was a covenant with those people that not only Joshua and the people honored, but also God Himself honored as well. When were threatened by a Philistine attack, Saul he disobeyed Jehovah by offering a sacrifice instead of waiting for Samuel to do it. The chronicler, herewhoever he wasis giving us a big hint that David's attention was elsewhere for three whole years. The problem was that God had not told Saul to do this, God had told Joshua to do that. I will do it." Completely ignoring God's explicit command to spare the Gibeonites, Saul decreed it was time to remove them completely by exterminating them. He gives them exactly what they want, and look at what happens. They were a group of Amorites. In fact, look down to verse 15, II Samuel 21:15-17 When the Philistines were at war again with Israel, David and his servants with him went down and fought against the Philistines; and David grew faint. And that is why God heeded the prayer of the land. They are going to cause problems. Why are they where they were? The higher the vote, the further up an answer is. God punished the whole nation for breaking the covenant. However, the Gibeonites did. or who shall stand in his holy place? . It must have been a satisfactory solution from Gods point of view, because he sent the rain on the land after the measures had been taken. They do what their flesh tells them to dowhat Satan inspires them to want to doand they do it. So this zeal may not have carried good connotations (cf John 2:17) it was not zeal for God but zeal for man, an ongoing problem with Saul. 3. He says that He visits the iniquity upon them. The consequences are not the guilt. Weba motive for Saul's attack on them. So David asked the Lord for help, and the Lord answered, Saul and his family are guilty of murder, because he had the Gibeonites killed. Then, I am sure, he started to think about other things that were happening, and he started to make some reforms in himself. The people of the land stand for our spiritual enemiesour human nature, this world, and Satan the Devil. The angel of the LORD encamps all around those who fear Him, and delivers them. . Let's see what's in our bag of tricks. There was a great deal of turmoil in Israel leading up to this time. Notice verse 2 says that Saul tried to strike them down in his zeal (also means jealously or envy) for the people of Israel and Judah. Deuteronomy 7:1-2 When the LORD your God brings you into the land which you go to possess, and has cast out many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than you, and when the LORD your God delivers them over to you, you shall conquer them and utterly destroy them. Your threshing shall last till the time of vintage, and the vintage shall last till the time of sowing; you shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely. That is basically how it was. Numbers 35:29-33 And these things shall be a statute of judgment to you throughout your generations in all your dwellings. Yet, the Bible specifically says in Hebrews 4:15 that He was without sin. These curses are things like diseases that might affect genetics, and they came as the result of sin. Saul and the Pharisees persecuted and killed the Christians, The sons of King Saul were killed as a result of this attempted genocide, The non-Christian inhabitants of Jerusalem were destroyed in AD70 Gods judgment on them for murdering his son and doubtless, the early Christians. We don't hear much of the Gibeonites again until the reign of King Saul. II Samuel 21:14 So they performed all that the king commanded. Their deceit, Israel's lack of vigilance and Saul's deep delusion caused God's people centuries of grief and embarrassment. Because of their peace treaty and their oath with the Gibeonites, which included these people. They handed their enemies hard, stale, moldy bread and told them it had been freshly baked when they left home. God did not perform a miracle to end this famine after these men were executed. You see, famine on the scale like thisthree yearsis a sign from God that things were not copacetic in the land. (4:10). They wanted blood by putting to death seven male descendants to die for the crimes of that house against the Gibeonites. If you read Psalm 51 it is very clear that he understood his own makeup. The Gibeonites decided on a different strategy. I Samuel 14:52 Now there was fierce war with the Philistines all the days of Saul. There is demotion. This is a major reason why the church of God does not subscribe to the traditional doctrine of "The Fall of Man." The Israelites had promised not to They did not inquire. And these men, they need to be buried. WebOne of the mothers of the men hanged by the Gibeonites protected the bodies of Saul's sons from birds and wild beasts day and night. And we bear the guilt with them for that. Therefore, this curse goes down until the gene pool is able to kick it outthree or four generations. We have examples of where that has happened, but he did not do that this time. So they performed all that the king commanded. There is not much wiggle room in all this. It was not just Saul, but other members of his family. By this time, having fought all his life since he was a teenagerup against Goliath when he was eighteen or soand here he was approaching 70 years old, and he was tired. Why is it just now that you are waking up to this? So, he kept his own covenant, but he did not go any further to figure out from God's law to know what should be done in this situation. This cultural thing about wanting our heroes flawed is so deeply ingrained in us that we cannot imagine anyone going through life without sin. How many died in bar-fights? Evidently, that is what he did. What have they done? But, the others were Saul's grandsons. Scripture has said this explicitly. Luke 21:36 "Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.". They engaged in battle, and Israel won, but the people and king Saul said, "Look at all this nice livestock! Then, they went after Jericho, and it fell. In Rizpahs case, her husband, King Saul, broke his promise that the Israelites would spare the Gibeonites in battle; he ordered the Israelites to annihilate them. Because David had been good friends with Jonathan, he at first allowed all of Sauls family to continue to live peaceably in the land. Something is wrong. "There was a famine in the days of King David for three years, year after year. The scriptures are not very definitive as to why. When we read the history of skirmishes and battles between the Gibeonites and Israelites we get a A snare is a trap. WebA three years' famine in the days of David was attributed to God's anger at the unexpiated crime of Saul in slaying the Gibeonites. Then we have verses 34 through 36. He became jealous and he went wacko, basically. And King David rolled over and let this happen. The Bible tells us that after Saul's death God sent a famine into the land mainly to get the attention of Saul's successor, King David. And the Lord said, There is bloodguilt on Saul and on his house, because he put the Gibeonites to death. 2 So the king called the Gibeonites and Report, September 02 2013 ", If you are on your spiritual game, and famine is occurring in your land, do you wait three years until thousands may have died? He is beyond us; it does not make any sense. God punished Adam and Eve for their sin. If we would go through Luke 21:7-12, we would see that Jesus gave His disciples indications of what would happen if the time of the end began. About two years ago, Barry Watson, our lone member in Namibia, wrote me an email message in which this incident was at the heart of it. It says a bit later that somebody told him what that woman was doing out there protecting the bodies of the slain men of Saul's house for the past six months and it was as though he said, "Oh really? King David was compelled to hand over his own people to the power of Israel's ongoing enemies. King Saul would conscript them into the army, and off they would go in a bloodthirsty rage against somebody else. Israel and Judah," who may have fretted at the inconvenience of having the Gibeonites among them. You had only black and white television if you had television. I am just going to start with the backdrop to the incident. The prophet Zechariah asks a question that is forever pertinent to all spiritual considerations and decisions: "For who hath despised the day of small things?" "Now therefore, you are cursed, and none of you shall be freed from being slaveswoodcutters and water carriers for the house of my God." (Mark 6:20). 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